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Subject:
From:
Ulrich Dirr <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Mon, 26 Nov 2007 19:54:43 +0100
Content-Type:
text/plain
Parts/Attachments:
text/plain (197 lines)
Hi Frank,

>  > in my opinion middle floats always float ;-) "Middle" floats could
float
>  > from the column top to the column bottom; if there's room left
before or
>  > after one should apply the standard orphan/widow rules (but if a
>  > designer wants a fixed middle placement one should have an option
like
>  > the absolute placement for top and bottom position). They can be of
>  > different size and therefore I don't think there is a algorithm
that
>  > will satisfy all possible combinations automatically. As said there
>  > should be a possibility for a fixed position on the page, e.g., on
top
>  > or bottom or both (wether in single column mode or more) and maybe
even
>  > in combination with column number, e.g., left column, middle, right
(or
>  > one, two, three, ...) -- In this case I would like to have an
option to
>  > place some text at the original position when the float has been
moved.
> 
> I didn't meant to discuss "here" floats as in LaTeX2e which indeed
nearly
> always float :-) ---and if they do, your idea of allowing some
alternate text
> to appear is a good one.

o.k., just some book designer's thoughts
 
> I was/am after a design that supports one or more float area that is
not on
> the top/bottom of the page but somewhere within the page, i.e., a
place or
> more where floats float into, for example in a design where part of
the margin
> is being used for floats
> 
>   ttt  ttt
>   ttt  ttt
>        ttt
> AAAAA  ttt
> AAAAA  ttt
> AAAAA  ttt
>        ttt
>   ttt  ttt
>   ttt  ttt
>   ttt  ttt

but this is already a very special case! Here I would propose to put the
vertical float area in a visual pleasing place, like the golden ratio.
 
> the xor implementation has already changed that drastically by
supporting
> 
>  - spanning float areas across multiple columns (in a multi-column
design with
>    cols >=2),
> 
>  - relations betwen float areas, e.g., if a float is place in one
area, other
>    areas may not be allowed to receive floats
> 
>  - more flexibility in specifying float callout relation
 
I presupposed this already ;-) 
 
>  > > Questions:
>  > >
>  > >     * What kind of other specs can you think of?  
>  >  > for fixed positions:
>  > [col=1, pos=<t,c,b,>, col=2, pos=<t,c,b,>, col=3, pos=<t,c,b,>,
...] or
>  > even
>  > [col=1, pos=absolute(10cm), ...], [col=1,
pos=absolute(10\baselineskip),
>  > ...], or [col=1, pos=<baseline|top|bottom>(10\baselineskip), ...] 
> > 
> 
> If I understand this correctly than those are suggestions more in line
of
> spcifying layout on a per page basis, e.g. place this float in that
position
> on this page ... That is a different beast altogether and in fact xor
will
> have this ability too (though right now it is broken)

No, not on a per page basis. More a spec for defining float areas, top
and bottom are self-explaining but some absolute measure allows for
visually pleasing placement of 'middle' areas (and combined with a
'vsize' option you can get a consistent layout), e.g.,

tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
             tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
+--------+   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   +--------+
AAAAAAAAAA   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   AAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAA   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   AAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAA   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   AAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAA   tttttttttt        tttttttttt
+--------+   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   +--------+
             tttttttttt        tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
          112                            113


tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
             tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
+--------+   +--------+        tttttttttt   +--------+
AAAAAAAAAA   AAAAAAAAAA        tttttttttt   AAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAA   AAAAAAAAAA        tttttttttt   AAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAA   AAAAAAAAAA        tttttttttt   AAAAAAAAAA
             AAAAAAAAAA        tttttttttt   
+--------+   +--------+        tttttttttt   +--------+
             tttttttttt        tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
          114                            115


tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
             tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
+--------+   +--------+        +---------------------+
AAAAAAAAAA   AAAAAAAAAA        AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAA   AAAAAAAAAA        AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAA   AAAAAAAAAA        AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
             AAAAAAAAAA        AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
+--------+   +--------+        +---------------------+
             tttttttttt        tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
tttttttttt   tttttttttt        tttttttttt   tttttttttt
          116                            117

etc.pp.

> But what I'm after is this:
> 
>  - assuming you have the possibility of specifying one (or more?)
middle areas
>    for floats by which I mean an area to receieve float(s) where above
and
>    below there is still text
> 
>  - when what kind of algorithmic specifications and rules should
govern this
>    area and how it is filled?

float area, position, size, <ordering>, <rulers>, <colour specs,
including transparency>, spans, spreads (two page spans), 'margin
offset' (ill. goes inside margin)

Ulrich

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