LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.0

Help for LATEX-L Archives


LATEX-L Archives

LATEX-L Archives


LATEX-L@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

LATEX-L Home

LATEX-L Home

LATEX-L  February 1997

LATEX-L February 1997

Subject:

Re: International documents

From:

Frank Mittelbach <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 16 Feb 1997 21:07:29 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (94 lines)

Narendra Ravi writes:
 > > but before going into interface questions, what are the items related
 > > to language? what are the answers to the above questions?
 > >
 > > good night
 > > frank
 >
 > I have been following this discussion and agree with Frank. I have one
 > request/suggestion. There must already exist a list of language dependent
 > items under consideration. It will help a lot if this list is posted to
 > this mailing list. This will give us an idea of what Frank is talking
 > about.

i don't know if there is a compiled list for babel or whether one has
to get this out of the babel language files. perhaps Johannes can tell
us if he has such a list (otherwise i might compile that list myself
but that would take some time)

Johannes?

 > Judging from the discussion so far, the only issue of concern across
 > different languages seems to be hyphenation. I'm sure several people will
 > correct me :-).

well, there is certainly more, although perhaps not discussed so
openly. For example, the quotation characters differ in different
languages traditionally. Unfortunately LaTeX in its current usage
doesn't offer explicit markup for this, eg we neither have

 Within an English sentence one could say \quotedphrase{Dies ist
 ein deutscher Satz} or even ...

nor \begin{...} ... \end{...} or even something like

 Within an English sentence one could say \leftquote Dies ist
 ein deutscher Satz\rightquote{} or even ...

Instead we only have `` .... '' as explicit markup (suitable for
english) so that language support usually added explict support as
well, eg the EC fonts do have << >> as ligatures for french quotes
(also used by other countries) or the german package or the german
option for babel offers "`..."' (and also explicit command names) and
so on

there are many other examples and those mentioned already, eg the
usual way of displaying chapter numbers and and and, all can be viewed
as having to do with a language interface.

however, the boundaries are vague, ie while it is kind of necessary to
select the right hyphenation patterns for the current language (and
even if there is not a single right choice but several there are
clearly wrong choices, eg hyphenating english text using german
hyphenation patterns is not that good even though you might want to
use different patterns than those provided by knuth :-) the
presentation of numbers is certainly something that allows are large
variety applicable to many languages even though there might be rules
or suggestions for certain languages.

 > Dates are not really an issue, because, I consider dates to have a meaning,
 > and authors are responsible for all content related issues. In my opinion
 > both  "Dec 10, 1996" and  "9 Jan 1997" are OK. If authors choose to write
 > the date in a different form, then they are risking misinterpretation.

dates in itself might not be an issue although even this could be
challenged in certain situations, that for certain type of documents
(eg to avoid misinterpretation and to produce informtiy if for example
some dates are generated automatically and others are manually entered
by the users).

but LaTeX offers a command called \today and in fact it probably
should provide a command like \formatdate{}{}{} as well (which is not
the case). Now this command \today is an abstract thingie, eg you
might want to write something like

  Printed \today

in a document. thus in a line like that \today should not reply with a
date spelled out in German, should it?

In other words any textual string that it produced by LaTeX as part of
the formatting of abstract contents, eg the word "Bibliography"
produced by \begin{thebibliography} should match the language of the
document. Of course there might be more than one possible solution for
this and that is why one might need a flexible interface but clearly
something needs to be there for such entities.

 > LaTeX can and must only handle aspects of presentation and not interpret
 > the content of documents.

right, but that is an aspect of presentation of logical data at least
for the \today case, for the others, as i said one cane argue
depending on the application.

frank

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

September 2019
July 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
July 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
September 2007
August 2007
June 2007
May 2007
March 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
November 2004
October 2004
August 2004
July 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
October 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003
December 2002
October 2002
September 2002
August 2002
July 2002
June 2002
March 2002
December 2001
October 2001
September 2001
August 2001
July 2001
June 2001
May 2001
April 2001
March 2001
February 2001
January 2001
December 2000
November 2000
October 2000
September 2000
August 2000
July 2000
May 2000
April 2000
March 2000
February 2000
January 2000
December 1999
November 1999
October 1999
September 1999
August 1999
May 1999
April 1999
March 1999
February 1999
January 1999
December 1998
November 1998
October 1998
September 1998
August 1998
July 1998
June 1998
May 1998
April 1998
March 1998
February 1998
January 1998
December 1997
November 1997
October 1997
September 1997
August 1997
July 1997
June 1997
May 1997
April 1997
March 1997
February 1997
January 1997
December 1996

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE

Universität Heidelberg | Impressum | Datenschutzerklärung

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager