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LATEX-L List Archives2024-03-19T04:18:02ZPowered by L-Soft's LISTSERV email list software
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http://www.lsoft.com/images/listserv_64x64.pngRe: Usage of \tl_build_... functions from l3candidates in the next version of the wheelchart package
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;3b726eb7.2310
Dear Joseph,<br><br>Thank you for the information. For now I will use the current function<br>names. If these names would be changed then I will update them.<br><br>Kind regards,<br>Matthias<br><br>On 10/17/23 21:10, Joseph Wright wrote:<br>> On 17/10/2023 17:52, Matthias Floré wrote:<br>>> Dear,<br>>><br>>> As proposed in interface3.pdf, I hereby inform that in the next<br>>> version of the wheelchart package, I plan to use some of the<br>>> \tl_build_... functions from l3candidates. Namely<br>>><br>>> \tl_build_begin:N<br>>> \tl_build_end:N<br>>> \tl_build_gbegin:N<br>>> \tl_build_gend:N<br>>> \tl_build_gput_left:Ne<br>>> \tl_build_gput_right:Ne<br>>> \tl_build_put_right:Ne<br>>> \tl_build_put_right:Nn<br>>> \tl_build_put_right:NV<br>>><br>>> Kind regards,<br> [...]
2023-10-17T22:59:40+02:00Matthias Floréhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;3b726eb7.2310Re: Usage of \tl_build_... functions from l3candidates in the next version of the wheelchart package
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;7bcb2ac0.2310
On 17/10/2023 17:52, Matthias Floré wrote:<br>> Dear,<br>><br>> As proposed in interface3.pdf, I hereby inform that in the next version<br>> of the wheelchart package, I plan to use some of the \tl_build_...<br>> functions from l3candidates. Namely<br>><br>> \tl_build_begin:N<br>> \tl_build_end:N<br>> \tl_build_gbegin:N<br>> \tl_build_gend:N<br>> \tl_build_gput_left:Ne<br>> \tl_build_gput_right:Ne<br>> \tl_build_put_right:Ne<br>> \tl_build_put_right:Nn<br>> \tl_build_put_right:NV<br>><br>> Kind regards,<br>> Matthias Floré<br><br>Hello Matthias,<br><br>I have recently raised the remaining functions in l3candidates with the<br>team. It is clear that we will retain the names at least as deprecated<br>functions: the functionality is clearly required and [...]
2023-10-17T20:10:25+01:00Joseph Wrighthttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;7bcb2ac0.2310Usage of \tl_build_... functions from l3candidates in the next version of the wheelchart package
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;54224d88.2310
Dear,<br><br>As proposed in interface3.pdf, I hereby inform that in the next version<br>of the wheelchart package, I plan to use some of the \tl_build_...<br>functions from l3candidates. Namely<br><br>\tl_build_begin:N<br>\tl_build_end:N<br>\tl_build_gbegin:N<br>\tl_build_gend:N<br>\tl_build_gput_left:Ne<br>\tl_build_gput_right:Ne<br>\tl_build_put_right:Ne<br>\tl_build_put_right:Nn<br>\tl_build_put_right:NV<br><br>Kind regards,<br>Matthias Floré
2023-10-17T18:52:14+02:00Matthias Floréhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;54224d88.2310TeX Hour: Thu 7 September: Accessible STEM and LaTeX
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;aa679d5c.2309
Hi<br><br>Aside: I very much hope that some members of the LaTeX Project will use<br>this meeting as an opportunity to talk with Jonathan Godfrey about the<br>arXiv accessibility project. I believe that by working together we can make<br>things better.<br><br>The first TeX Hour after the 2023 northern summer holiday will be on<br>Thursday 7 September, 6:30 to 7:30pm, BST (British Summer Time). All are<br>welcome. We are fortunate to have Jonathan Godfrey as a special guest. [...]
2023-09-04T20:23:04+01:00Jonathan Finehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;aa679d5c.2309input / file primitives: Prote corrected
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;e2852dcc.2308
FWIW, Prote has been corrected for the input like behavior of the file<br>primitives.<br><br>All the change files, manual and description are here:<br><br>https://kertex.kergis.com/fr/prote.html<br><br>and note that in the kertex_T tar file, there are also under<br>prote/lib/sellette/, tex files to test all the new primitives.<br><br>FWIW,
2023-08-01T20:16:33+02:00LARONDE Thierryhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;e2852dcc.2308Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;9da17c64.2307
Hi Thierry,<br><br>> On 30 Jul 2023, at 01:55, LARONDE Thierry <tlaronde@polynum.com> wrote:<br>><br>> So, as far as I'm concerned, I will make the file primitives behave like<br>> \input, state it in the documentation (so if someone wants to write<br>> another engine LaTeX compliant, it can at least start with that if he<br>> doesn't want my change file), with the TeX behavior (ignoring kpathsea),<br>> that is: one can not input or size etc. a file without an extension<br>> ---and this should not cause any problem for LaTeX per se because, if it<br>> was [...]
2023-07-31T09:53:20+09:30Will Robertsonhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;9da17c64.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;9df65bda.2307
On Sat, Jul 29, 2023 at 05:33:18PM +0100, David Carlisle wrote:<br>> On 29/07/2023 12:21, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>> > But this is exactly my question: is it enough for LaTeX?<br>><br>> For latex, the only requirement is that all the file primitives use the<br>> same search so \xxx{foooo}<br>><br>> refers to the same file if \xxx is \input or \(pdf}filesize or whatever.<br>> {note luatex and web2c engines accept \input{...} with braces at the<br>> primitive level.)<br>><br>> latex also assumes it can use double quotes to guard spaces \input "a b<br>> c .tex" [...]
2023-07-30T12:32:15+02:00LARONDE Thierryhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;9df65bda.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;d0dc74a5.2307
On 30/07/2023 09:34, Jonathan Fine wrote:<br>> Hi<br>><br>> I wonder, does the LaTeX companion contain useful information related to<br>> this topic?<br>><br>> Jonathan<br>><br><br>I am not sure what it would say: as I've already mentioned, the change<br>was essentially technical and not intended to impact on end users. The<br>fact that it was predicated on the idea that all file operations use the<br>same search approach is one that LaTeX has relied on 'for ever' as it's<br>true of \openin and \input, which are the 'classical' file reading<br>primitives. [...]
2023-07-30T10:16:48+01:00Joseph Wrighthttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;d0dc74a5.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;6feaf1c9.2307
Hi<br><br>I wonder, does the LaTeX companion contain useful information related to<br>this topic?<br><br>Jonathan
2023-07-30T09:34:56+01:00Jonathan Finehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;6feaf1c9.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;1d12e3bd.2307
On 29/07/2023 12:21, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>> But this is exactly my question: is it enough for LaTeX?<br><br>For latex, the only requirement is that all the file primitives use the<br>same search so \xxx{foooo}<br><br>refers to the same file if \xxx is \input or \(pdf}filesize or whatever.<br>{note luatex and web2c engines accept \input{...} with braces at the<br>primitive level.) [...]
2023-07-29T17:33:18+01:00David Carlislehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;1d12e3bd.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;8af30449.2307
On Sat, Jul 29, 2023 at 05:04:06PM +0100, David Carlisle wrote:<br>> On 29/07/2023 06:46, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>> > I suppose that this behavior is in LaTeX code, not an engine?<br>><br>> No, as I have said multiple times this is not a latex issue.<br>><br>> that text is from texlive's texmf.cnf documenting the engine level<br>> kpathsea search options. [...]
2023-07-29T18:22:32+02:00LARONDE Thierryhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;8af30449.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;dba0d1b3.2307
On 29/07/2023 06:46, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>> I suppose that this behavior is in LaTeX code, not an engine?<br><br>No, as I have said multiple times this is not a latex issue.<br><br>that text is from texlive's texmf.cnf documenting the engine level<br>kpathsea search options.<br><br>That is, it is documenting C code not macros.<br><br>David<br><br>Disclaimer<br><br>The Numerical Algorithms Group Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 1249803. The registered office is: 30 St. Giles, Oxford, OX1 3LE, United Kingdom. Please see our Privacy Notice <https://www.nag.com/content/privacy-notice> for information on how we process personal data and [...]
2023-07-29T17:04:06+01:00David Carlislehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;dba0d1b3.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;37a515de.2307
On Sat, Jul 29, 2023 at 01:09:21PM +0200, Ulrike Fischer wrote:<br>> Am Sat, 29 Jul 2023 12:12:12 +0200 schrieb LARONDE Thierry:<br>><br>> > OK, let's go to "TeX: The Program": m.537 (p 214):<br>><br>> Your concrete problem is not the implementation of \input, your<br>> problem is that your implementation of \pdffilesize (which by the<br>> way is not mentioned in "TeX: The Program") doesn't use the same<br>> method to find a file as your \input/\openin.<br>><br>> It is -- as David already wrote -- quite a problem if "\pdffilesize<br>> filename" reports a size [...]
2023-07-29T13:21:22+02:00LARONDE Thierryhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;37a515de.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;4d466e0f.2307
Am Sat, 29 Jul 2023 12:12:12 +0200 schrieb LARONDE Thierry:<br><br>> OK, let's go to "TeX: The Program": m.537 (p 214):<br><br>Your concrete problem is not the implementation of \input, your<br>problem is that your implementation of \pdffilesize (which by the<br>way is not mentioned in "TeX: The Program") doesn't use the same<br>method to find a file as your \input/\openin. [...]
2023-07-29T13:09:21+02:00Ulrike Fischerhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;4d466e0f.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;3d320ecd.2307
On Sat, Jul 29, 2023 at 10:02:00AM +0100, Joseph Wright wrote:<br>> On 29/07/2023 08:37, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>> > On Sat, Jul 29, 2023 at 08:07:54AM +0100, Joseph Wright wrote:<br>> > > On 29/07/2023 06:46, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>> > > > On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 08:31:53PM +0100, David Carlisle wrote:<br>> > > > ><br>> > > > > % If this option is set to true, `tex a.b' will look first for a.b.tex<br>> > > > > % (within each path element), and then for a.b, i.e., we try standard<br>> > [...]
2023-07-29T12:12:12+02:00LARONDE Thierryhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;3d320ecd.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;5f261f87.2307
On 29/07/2023 08:37, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>> On Sat, Jul 29, 2023 at 08:07:54AM +0100, Joseph Wright wrote:<br>>> On 29/07/2023 06:46, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>>>> On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 08:31:53PM +0100, David Carlisle wrote:<br>>>>><br>>>>> % If this option is set to true, `tex a.b' will look first for a.b.tex<br>>>>> % (within each path element), and then for a.b, i.e., we try standard<br>>>>> % extensions first. If this is false, we first look for a.b and then<br>>>>> % a.b.tex, i.e., we try the name as-is first.<br>>>>> %<br>>>>> % Both names are [...]
2023-07-29T10:02:00+01:00Joseph Wrighthttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;5f261f87.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;a87cf92c.2307
On 29/07/2023 08:29, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>> On Sat, Jul 29, 2023 at 08:15:19AM +0100, Joseph Wright wrote:<br>>> On 29/07/2023 07:36, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>>>> On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 07:53:19PM +0100, David Carlisle wrote:<br>>>>> On 28/07/2023 18:57, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>>>>><br>>><br>>>> 1) Is LaTeX expecting to be able to "\input" a file without extension?<br>>>> For me, "\input" could only be a tex file; so the extension was<br>>>> mandatory...<br>>><br>>> No. \input is the only way to read a file 'here'. Most obviously, many users<br>>> reserve .tex for plain TeX files [...]
2023-07-29T09:57:54+01:00Joseph Wrighthttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;a87cf92c.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;69014df8.2307
On Sat, Jul 29, 2023 at 08:07:54AM +0100, Joseph Wright wrote:<br>> On 29/07/2023 06:46, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>> > On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 08:31:53PM +0100, David Carlisle wrote:<br>> > ><br>> > > % If this option is set to true, `tex a.b' will look first for a.b.tex<br>> > > % (within each path element), and then for a.b, i.e., we try standard<br>> > > % extensions first. If this is false, we first look for a.b and then<br>> > > % a.b.tex, i.e., we try the name as-is first.<br>> > > [...]
2023-07-29T09:37:34+02:00LARONDE Thierryhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;69014df8.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;cb8d41a1.2307
On Sat, Jul 29, 2023 at 08:15:19AM +0100, Joseph Wright wrote:<br>> On 29/07/2023 07:36, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>> > On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 07:53:19PM +0100, David Carlisle wrote:<br>> > > On 28/07/2023 18:57, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>> > ><br>><br>> > 1) Is LaTeX expecting to be able to "\input" a file without extension?<br>> > For me, "\input" could only be a tex file; so the extension was<br>> > mandatory...<br>><br>> No. \input is the only way to read a file 'here'. Most obviously, many users<br>> reserve .tex for plain TeX [...]
2023-07-29T09:29:05+02:00LARONDE Thierryhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;cb8d41a1.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;5e202034.2307
On 29/07/2023 07:36, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>> On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 07:53:19PM +0100, David Carlisle wrote:<br>>> On 28/07/2023 18:57, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>>><br>>> but if \filesize{README} and \mdfivesum{README} refer to a different<br>>> file than \input{README} then they are not reliably useful for their<br>>> main use cases.<br>><br>> It shall be noted that as long as a filename is subject to different<br>> behavior (adding an extension or not; I'm unclear now about the fact<br>> that \input could try to input README without the ".tex" extension if<br>> not found, deviating from m.537---and [...]
2023-07-29T08:15:19+01:00Joseph Wrighthttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;5e202034.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;60c6d041.2307
On 29/07/2023 06:46, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>> On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 08:31:53PM +0100, David Carlisle wrote:<br>>> On 28/07/2023 19:48, Phelype Oleinik wrote:<br>>>> because the lookup first checks the name as given<br>>><br>>> actually no.<br>>><br>>> For extensionless files .tex is looked for first (so readme is not<br>>> accessible if readme.tex is blocking it)<br>>><br>>><br>>> % If this option is set to true, `tex a.b' will look first for a.b.tex<br>>> % (within each path element), and then for a.b, i.e., we try standard<br>>> % extensions first. If this is false, [...]
2023-07-29T08:07:54+01:00Joseph Wrighthttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;60c6d041.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;f4e565d4.2307
On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 07:53:19PM +0100, David Carlisle wrote:<br>> On 28/07/2023 18:57, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>><br>> but if \filesize{README} and \mdfivesum{README} refer to a different<br>> file than \input{README} then they are not reliably useful for their<br>> main use cases.<br><br>It shall be noted that as long as a filename is subject to different<br>behavior (adding an extension or not; I'm unclear now about the fact<br>that \input could try to input README without the ".tex" extension if<br>not found, deviating from m.537---and even \openin is adding<br>inconditionnally a ".tex" if no extension: see m.1275). [...]
2023-07-29T08:36:11+02:00LARONDE Thierryhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;f4e565d4.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;60ae781.2307
On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 08:31:53PM +0100, David Carlisle wrote:<br>> On 28/07/2023 19:48, Phelype Oleinik wrote:<br>> > because the lookup first checks the name as given<br>><br>> actually no.<br>><br>> For extensionless files .tex is looked for first (so readme is not<br>> accessible if readme.tex is blocking it)<br>><br>><br>> % If this option is set to true, `tex a.b' will look first for a.b.tex<br>> % (within each path element), and then for a.b, i.e., we try standard<br>> % extensions first. If this is false, we first look for a.b and [...]
2023-07-29T07:46:27+02:00LARONDE Thierryhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;60ae781.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;9c99b467.2307
On 28/07/2023 19:48, Phelype Oleinik wrote:<br>> because the lookup first checks the name as given<br><br>actually no.<br><br>For extensionless files .tex is looked for first (so readme is not<br>accessible if readme.tex is blocking it)<br><br>% If this option is set to true, `tex a.b' will look first for a.b.tex<br>% (within each path element), and then for a.b, i.e., we try standard<br>% extensions first. If this is false, we first look for a.b and then<br>% a.b.tex, i.e., we try the name as-is first.<br>%<br>% Both names are always tried; the difference is the order in [...]
2023-07-28T20:31:53+01:00David Carlislehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;9c99b467.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;7d09643c.2307
On 28/07/2023 18:57, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>> But it is not difficult if the API is specified. The problem is here.<br><br>sure, documentation is good but documentation requests need to go to<br>software maintainers, not users, and latex is an end user here.<br><br>><br>> Adding automatically an extension was<br>> preventing from obtaining the size of a file without an extension [...]
2023-07-28T19:53:19+01:00David Carlislehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;7d09643c.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;5f05c653.2307
On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 3:16 PM LARONDE Thierry <tlaronde@polynum.com> wrote:<br>><br>> I simply thought about the feature: when wanting the size, it can<br>> be for whatever file. Adding automatically an extension was<br>> preventing from obtaining the size of a file without an extension and<br>> this was not giving the size of the file as specified (being partly<br>> specified, not absolute was not a problem; changing the filename was).<br>> This was stupid to not be able to obtain the size of a filename<br>> without extension or to alter the filename. So I didn't [...]
2023-07-28T15:48:40-03:00Phelype Oleinikhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;5f05c653.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;5ff0589a.2307
On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 07:55:54PM +0200, Ulrike Fischer wrote:<br>> Am Fri, 28 Jul 2023 19:25:54 +0200 schrieb LARONDE Thierry:<br>><br>> >> Note that in order to do file testing by expansion (which we want for<br>> >> various expl3 functions), we *have* to avoid \openin and that realistically<br>> >> means \(pdf)filesize is the best option.<br>> ><br>> > Why in this case not having requested a \filefind primitive,<br>><br>> Adding new primitives to all engines LaTeX supports is not easily<br>> done, it can take a year or more and even if they [...]
2023-07-28T20:16:20+02:00LARONDE Thierryhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;5ff0589a.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;f45fdb09.2307
On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 06:39:58PM +0100, David Carlisle wrote:<br>> On 28/07/2023 18:25, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>> > Why in this case not having requested a \filefind primitive, with an<br>> > argument specifying a required extension (an empty string if to be<br>> > taken as is), and using the return value with other primitives (size,<br>> > moddate, md5, dump) doing no search and no extension (very "primitive"<br>> > primitives)?<br>><br>> you are asking on a latex list, but this is not a latex issue.<br>><br>> \pdffilesize has had this behaviour in pdftex [...]
2023-07-28T19:57:16+02:00LARONDE Thierryhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;f45fdb09.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;bf93e39b.2307
Am Fri, 28 Jul 2023 19:25:54 +0200 schrieb LARONDE Thierry:<br><br>>> Note that in order to do file testing by expansion (which we want for<br>>> various expl3 functions), we *have* to avoid \openin and that realistically<br>>> means \(pdf)filesize is the best option.<br>><br>> Why in this case not having requested a \filefind primitive, [...]
2023-07-28T19:55:54+02:00Ulrike Fischerhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;bf93e39b.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;c6fdd61b.2307
David Carlisle<br><000006e69eda60e0-dmarc-request@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE> writes:<br><br>> On 28/07/2023 18:25, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>>> Why in this case not having requested a \filefind primitive, with an<br>>> argument specifying a required extension (an empty string if to be<br>>> taken as is), and using the return value with other primitives (size,<br>>> moddate, md5, dump) doing no search and no extension (very "primitive"<br>>> primitives)?<br>><br>> you are asking on a latex list, but this is not a latex issue.<br>><br>> \pdffilesize has had this behaviour in pdftex for decades, and another<br>> primitive isn't needed. [...]
2023-07-28T19:47:35+02:00David Kastruphttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;c6fdd61b.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;41c5902c.2307
On 28/07/2023 18:25, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>> Why in this case not having requested a \filefind primitive, with an<br>> argument specifying a required extension (an empty string if to be<br>> taken as is), and using the return value with other primitives (size,<br>> moddate, md5, dump) doing no search and no extension (very "primitive"<br>> primitives)? [...]
2023-07-28T18:39:58+01:00David Carlislehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;41c5902c.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;fc6a117d.2307
On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 05:56:29PM +0100, Joseph Wright wrote:<br>><br>> Note that in order to do file testing by expansion (which we want for<br>> various expl3 functions), we *have* to avoid \openin and that realistically<br>> means \(pdf)filesize is the best option.<br><br>Why in this case not having requested a \filefind primitive, with an<br>argument specifying a required extension (an empty string if to be<br>taken as is), and using the return value with other primitives (size,<br>moddate, md5, dump) doing no search and no extension (very "primitive"<br>primitives)?
2023-07-28T19:25:54+02:00LARONDE Thierryhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;fc6a117d.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;4e2f0005.2307
On 28/07/2023 17:29, Joseph Wright wrote:<br>> On 28/07/2023 16:44, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>>> On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 04:20:09PM +0100, Joseph Wright wrote:<br>>>> On 28/07/2023 16:18, David Carlisle wrote:<br>>>>> On 28/07/2023 16:14, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 03:58:49PM +0100, Joseph Wright wrote:<br>>>>>>> On 28/07/2023 15:28, Thierry wrote:<br>>>>>>>> Yes. But the same engine does things differently between LaTeX<br>>>>>>>> 2022-11-01 and LaTeX 2023-06-01.<br>>>>>>>><br>>>>>>>> So could someone give me the diff of the input related things in<br>>>>>>>> LaTeX between these two versions so that I can have a [...]
2023-07-28T17:56:29+01:00Joseph Wrighthttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;4e2f0005.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;1ef2441b.2307
On 28/07/2023 16:44, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>> On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 04:20:09PM +0100, Joseph Wright wrote:<br>>> On 28/07/2023 16:18, David Carlisle wrote:<br>>>> On 28/07/2023 16:14, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>>>>> On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 03:58:49PM +0100, Joseph Wright wrote:<br>>>>>> On 28/07/2023 15:28, Thierry wrote:<br>>>>>>> Yes. But the same engine does things differently between LaTeX<br>>>>>>> 2022-11-01 and LaTeX 2023-06-01.<br>>>>>>><br>>>>>>> So could someone give me the diff of the input related things in<br>>>>>>> LaTeX between these two versions so that I can have a clue about<br>>>>>>> what LaTeX is expecting [...]
2023-07-28T17:29:24+01:00Joseph Wrighthttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;1ef2441b.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;e1e918dd.2307
On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 04:20:09PM +0100, Joseph Wright wrote:<br>> On 28/07/2023 16:18, David Carlisle wrote:<br>> > On 28/07/2023 16:14, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>> > > On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 03:58:49PM +0100, Joseph Wright wrote:<br>> > > > On 28/07/2023 15:28, Thierry wrote:<br>> > > > > Yes. But the same engine does things differently between LaTeX<br>> > > > > 2022-11-01 and LaTeX 2023-06-01.<br>> > > > ><br>> > > > > So could someone give me the diff of the input related things in<br>> > > > [...]
2023-07-28T17:44:15+02:00LARONDE Thierryhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;e1e918dd.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;193cffc5.2307
On Fri, 28 Jul 2023, 12:18 LARONDE Thierry, <tlaronde@polynum.com> wrote:<br><br>> Hello Phelype,<br>><br>> How can one rely on the size if the code can advertise the size that is<br>> not the size of the file requested but of another one for which it has<br>> added, on its own, an extension?<br>><br><br>As Joseph said, because of a not-too-great design choice in the original<br>TeX (I've had a good deal of trouble already because of the automatic<br>adding of ".tex" in file names). [...]
2023-07-28T12:30:40-03:00Phelype Oleinikhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;193cffc5.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;6f680d66.2307
On 28/07/2023 16:18, David Carlisle wrote:<br>> On 28/07/2023 16:14, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>>> On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 03:58:49PM +0100, Joseph Wright wrote:<br>>>> On 28/07/2023 15:28, Thierry wrote:<br>>>>> Yes. But the same engine does things differently between LaTeX<br>>>>> 2022-11-01 and LaTeX 2023-06-01.<br>>>>><br>>>>> So could someone give me the diff of the input related things in<br>>>>> LaTeX between these two versions so that I can have a clue about<br>>>>> what LaTeX is expecting and what it is eventually calling (because it<br>>>>> could be calling, low level, the open routine, and there [...]
2023-07-28T16:20:09+01:00Joseph Wrighthttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;6f680d66.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;9db0e57e.2307
On 28/07/2023 16:14, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>> On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 03:58:49PM +0100, Joseph Wright wrote:<br>>> On 28/07/2023 15:28, Thierry wrote:<br>>>> Yes. But the same engine does things differently between LaTeX<br>>>> 2022-11-01 and LaTeX 2023-06-01.<br>>>><br>>>> So could someone give me the diff of the input related things in<br>>>> LaTeX between these two versions so that I can have a clue about<br>>>> what LaTeX is expecting and what it is eventually calling (because it<br>>>> could be calling, low level, the open routine, and there is no<br>>>> acrobatics made in the [...]
2023-07-28T16:18:39+01:00David Carlislehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;9db0e57e.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;1ebbac47.2307
Hello Phelype,<br><br>On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 12:04:28PM -0300, Phelype Oleinik wrote:<br>> Hi Thierry,<br>><br>> On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 11:59?AM Joseph Wright<br>> <joseph.wright@morningstar2.co.uk> wrote:<br>> ><br>> > Older LaTeX used \openin + \ifeof to test for file existence; we now use<br>> > \(pdf)filesize, which is expandable and reports "0" for a non-existent<br>> > file. Both methods should find "foo.tex" from "foo" in the same way.<br>><br>> A wild guess: maybe your implementation of |\pdffilesize| doesn't try<br>> to guess the extension as |\input| does, thus the difference you are<br>> [...]
2023-07-28T17:17:43+02:00LARONDE Thierryhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;1ebbac47.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;fbda57f7.2307
On 28/07/2023 16:14, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>> On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 03:58:49PM +0100, Joseph Wright wrote:<br>>> On 28/07/2023 15:28, Thierry wrote:<br>>>> Yes. But the same engine does things differently between LaTeX<br>>>> 2022-11-01 and LaTeX 2023-06-01.<br>>>><br>>>> So could someone give me the diff of the input related things in<br>>>> LaTeX between these two versions so that I can have a clue about<br>>>> what LaTeX is expecting and what it is eventually calling (because it<br>>>> could be calling, low level, the open routine, and there is no<br>>>> acrobatics made in the [...]
2023-07-28T16:17:18+01:00Joseph Wrighthttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;fbda57f7.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;b1a17ac6.2307
On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 03:58:49PM +0100, Joseph Wright wrote:<br>> On 28/07/2023 15:28, Thierry wrote:<br>> > Yes. But the same engine does things differently between LaTeX<br>> > 2022-11-01 and LaTeX 2023-06-01.<br>> ><br>> > So could someone give me the diff of the input related things in<br>> > LaTeX between these two versions so that I can have a clue about<br>> > what LaTeX is expecting and what it is eventually calling (because it<br>> > could be calling, low level, the open routine, and there is no<br>> > acrobatics made in [...]
2023-07-28T17:14:13+02:00LARONDE Thierryhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;b1a17ac6.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;9ccc77a0.2307
Hi Thierry,<br><br>On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 11:59 AM Joseph Wright<br><joseph.wright@morningstar2.co.uk> wrote:<br>><br>> Older LaTeX used \openin + \ifeof to test for file existence; we now use<br>> \(pdf)filesize, which is expandable and reports "0" for a non-existent<br>> file. Both methods should find "foo.tex" from "foo" in the same way.<br><br>A wild guess: maybe your implementation of |\pdffilesize| doesn't try<br>to guess the extension as |\input| does, thus the difference you are<br>seeing. Because as others have already said, |\input{docstrip}| works<br>in both older and newer (web2c-based) LaTeX. [...]
2023-07-28T12:04:28-03:00Phelype Oleinikhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;9ccc77a0.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;9191644.2307
On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 03:44:32PM +0100, David Carlisle wrote:<br>> On 28/07/2023 15:28, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>> > Yes. But the same engine does things differently between LaTeX<br>> > 2022-11-01 and LaTeX 2023-06-01.<br>><br>> What difference are you seeing? If I try 2022-11-01 it acts the same<br>> way as the current (and older) versions<br>> [...]
2023-07-28T17:02:05+02:00LARONDE Thierryhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;9191644.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;6d9a7a32.2307
On 28/07/2023 15:28, Thierry wrote:<br>> Yes. But the same engine does things differently between LaTeX<br>> 2022-11-01 and LaTeX 2023-06-01.<br>><br>> So could someone give me the diff of the input related things in<br>> LaTeX between these two versions so that I can have a clue about<br>> what LaTeX is expecting and what it is eventually calling (because it<br>> could be calling, low level, the open routine, and there is no<br>> acrobatics made in the open routine in kerTeX: the handling is made<br>> before calling the routine; so if LaTeX is calling low [...]
2023-07-28T15:58:49+01:00Joseph Wrighthttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;6d9a7a32.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;7b0c31b4.2307
Am Fri, 28 Jul 2023 15:44:32 +0100 schrieb<br>000006e69eda60e0-dmarc-request@LISTSERV.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE:<br><br>> The only related change log (changes.txt in the latex2e/base repository)<br>> I see for input since 2022-11-01 is<br><br>there is probably a bit more in l3kernel.<br><br>At least the code to speed up file access should be there.
2023-07-28T16:53:56+02:00Ulrike Fischerhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;7b0c31b4.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;e7bb430e.2307
Le 28/07/2023 à 16:28, LARONDE Thierry a écrit :<br>>[...]<br>><br>> Yes. But the same engine does things differently between LaTeX<br>> 2022-11-01 and LaTeX 2023-06-01.<br>><br>> So could someone give me the diff of the input related things in<br>> LaTeX between these two versions so that I can have a clue about<br>> what LaTeX is expecting and what it is eventually calling (because it<br>> could be calling, low level, the open routine, and there is no<br>> acrobatics made in the open routine in kerTeX: the handling is made<br>> before calling the routine; so [...]
2023-07-28T16:45:04+02:00Jean-Côme Charpentierhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;e7bb430e.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;a9b0f7a9.2307
On 28/07/2023 15:28, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>> Yes. But the same engine does things differently between LaTeX<br>> 2022-11-01 and LaTeX 2023-06-01.<br><br>What difference are you seeing? If I try 2022-11-01 it acts the same<br>way as the current (and older) versions<br><br>echo '\input{docstrip}' | /usr/local/texlive/2022/bin/*/latex<br><br>This is pdfTeX, Version 3.141592653-2.6-1.40.24 (TeX Live 2022)<br>(preloaded format=latex)<br>restricted \write18 enabled.<br>**entering extended mode<br>LaTeX2e <2022-11-01> patch level 1<br>L3 programming layer <2023-02-07><br>(/usr/local/texlive/2022/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/docstrip.tex [...]
2023-07-28T15:44:32+01:00David Carlislehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;a9b0f7a9.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;7799b76a.2307
On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 03:14:31PM +0100, David Carlisle wrote:<br>> On 28/07/2023 15:03, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>> > On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 12:57:44PM +0100, Joseph Wright wrote:<br>> > > On 28/07/2023 12:28, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>> > > > Hello,<br>> > > ><br>> > > > Apparently, somewhere between 2022 and 2023, you have changed the way<br>> > > > the LaTeX \input macro, replacing the primitive, is behaving regarding<br>> > > > the extension when brackets are used.<br>> > > ><br>> > To be more specific, somewhere between [...]
2023-07-28T16:28:14+02:00LARONDE Thierryhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;7799b76a.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;6379b87f.2307
On 28/07/2023 15:03, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>> On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 12:57:44PM +0100, Joseph Wright wrote:<br>>> On 28/07/2023 12:28, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>>>> Hello,<br>>>><br>>>> Apparently, somewhere between 2022 and 2023, you have changed the way<br>>>> the LaTeX \input macro, replacing the primitive, is behaving regarding<br>>>> the extension when brackets are used.<br>>>><br>> To be more specific, somewhere between 2022-11-01 and today (CTAN<br>> 2023-06-30).<br>><br>> As a remainder: I'm the developer of kerTeX (a distribution) and of<br>> Prote (a change file to add LaTeX needed primitives to TeX + e-TeX). [...]
2023-07-28T15:14:31+01:00David Carlislehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;6379b87f.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;5faca101.2307
On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 12:57:44PM +0100, Joseph Wright wrote:<br>> On 28/07/2023 12:28, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>> > Hello,<br>> ><br>> > Apparently, somewhere between 2022 and 2023, you have changed the way<br>> > the LaTeX \input macro, replacing the primitive, is behaving regarding<br>> > the extension when brackets are used.<br>> > [...]
2023-07-28T16:03:24+02:00LARONDE Thierryhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;5faca101.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;fd567637.2307
On 28/07/2023 14:04, Jonathan Fine wrote:<br>> Hi<br>><br>> Is the change in the behaviour of the LaTeX's \input command reported in<br>> the release notes?<br>><br>> Jonathan<br>><br><br>To emphasise, other than some 'pathological' edge cases, there has been<br>no change of behaviour and thus this was not covered in LaTeX News.<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Joseph
2023-07-28T14:13:13+01:00Joseph Wrighthttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;fd567637.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;555b4801.2307
Hi<br><br>Is the change in the behaviour of the LaTeX's \input command reported in<br>the release notes?<br><br>Jonathan
2023-07-28T14:04:46+01:00Jonathan Finehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;555b4801.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;fac0b121.2307
On 28/07/2023 12:28, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>> Hello,<br>><br>> Apparently, somewhere between 2022 and 2023, you have changed the way<br>> the LaTeX \input macro, replacing the primitive, is behaving regarding<br>> the extension when brackets are used.<br>><br>> Now, when a tex file specifies:<br>><br>> \input{filename}<br>><br>> i.e.: "filename" without a ".tex" extension, the file is searched<br>> "as is" and if not found, the extension is not added. (This is for<br>> example the case in the bbold package, inside the .dtx for inclusion of<br>> docstrip.)<br>><br>> If one specifies:<br>><br>> [...]
2023-07-28T12:57:44+01:00Joseph Wrighthttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;fac0b121.2307Re: "new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;2e61659c.2307
Am Fri, 28 Jul 2023 13:28:48 +0200 schrieb LARONDE Thierry:<br><br>> Hello,<br>><br>> Apparently, somewhere between 2022 and 2023, you have changed the way<br>> the LaTeX \input macro, replacing the primitive, is behaving regarding<br>> the extension when brackets are used.<br>><br>> Now, when a tex file specifies:<br>><br>> \input{filename}<br>><br>> i.e.: "filename" without a ".tex" extension, the file is searched<br>> "as is" and if not found, the extension is not added. (This is for<br>> example the case in the bbold package, inside the .dtx for inclusion of<br>> docstrip.)<br>> [...]
2023-07-28T13:47:35+02:00Ulrike Fischerhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;2e61659c.2307"new" \input vs. primitive behavior
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;92c06bd3.2307
Hello,<br><br>Apparently, somewhere between 2022 and 2023, you have changed the way<br>the LaTeX \input macro, replacing the primitive, is behaving regarding<br>the extension when brackets are used.<br><br>Now, when a tex file specifies:<br><br>\input{filename}<br><br>i.e.: "filename" without a ".tex" extension, the file is searched<br>"as is" and if not found, the extension is not added. (This is for<br>example the case in the bbold package, inside the .dtx for inclusion of<br>docstrip.) [...]
2023-07-28T13:28:48+02:00LARONDE Thierryhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;92c06bd3.2307Re: Babel/hyph-utf8: missing babelname for norwegian
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;2085ac2a.2303
> Using a existing tag assigned to a (meta)language as a convenience<br><br>Oops. I meant (macro)language.<br><br>Javier
2023-03-16T16:54:43+01:00Javier Bezoshttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;2085ac2a.2303Re: Babel/hyph-utf8: missing babelname for norwegian
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;e4b13598.2303
>> Although intentional, this is not quite correct if we follow the<br>>> Unicode CLDR, which considers the ‘default’ Norwegian is ‘no’<br>>> (technically it’s a macrolanguage, and ‘nb’=“Norwegian Bokmål” is<br>>> empty and just inherits from it). This is the correspondence made<br>>> by babel, which follows Unicode.<br>><br>> Except that that explanation is a bit turned on its head :-) First,<br>> the Common Locale Data Repository is not a part of the Unicode Standard<br>> (which encodes scripts, not languages), [...]
2023-03-16T16:51:51+01:00Javier Bezoshttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;e4b13598.2303Re: Babel/hyph-utf8: missing babelname for norwegian
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;467947a8.2303
On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 06:40:06PM +0100, Javier Bezos wrote:<br>> Although intentional, this is not quite correct if we follow the<br>> Unicode CLDR, which considers the ‘default’ Norwegian is ‘no’<br>> (technically it’s a macrolanguage, and ‘nb’=“Norwegian Bokmål” is<br>> empty and just inherits from it). This is the correspondence made<br>> by babel, which follows Unicode. [...]
2023-03-14T23:42:04+01:00Arthur Rosendahlhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;467947a8.2303Re: Babel/hyph-utf8: missing babelname for norwegian
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;60ed4122.2303
> In the hyph-utf8 bundle of hyphenation patterns, there is one file that<br>> has not babelname set (in the comments):<br>><br>> tex/generic/hyph-utf8/patterns/tex/hyph-no.tex<br>...<br><br>>> Not knowing if it's intentional (to not specify the babelname for<br>>> this file) or not, I mention it...<br><br>Although intentional, this is not quite correct if we follow the<br>Unicode CLDR, which considers the ‘default’ Norwegian is ‘no’<br>(technically it’s a macrolanguage, and ‘nb’=“Norwegian Bokmål” is<br>empty and just inherits from it). This is the correspondence made<br>by babel, which follows Unicode. However, internally, hyphenation<br>rules are set to the name ‘norwegian’ as [...]
2023-03-14T18:40:06+01:00Javier Bezoshttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;60ed4122.2303Re: Babel/hyph-utf8: missing babelname for norwegian
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;fa7fbb45.2303
Hello Arthur,<br><br>Le Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 11:44:16AM +0100, Arthur Rosendahl a écrit :<br>> Hi Thierry,<br>><br>> On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 11:22:45AM +0100, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>> > I don't know if this is the correct place for it, but since it involves<br>> > the format and Babel...<br>><br>> The hyphenation patterns have their own mailing list<br>> (https://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/tex-hyphen), but since I read this one<br>> too I can reply here.<br>><br>> > Not knowing if it's intentional (to not specify the babelname for this<br>> > file) or not, I mention [...]
2023-03-14T12:40:29+01:00LARONDE Thierryhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;fa7fbb45.2303Re: Babel/hyph-utf8: missing babelname for norwegian
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;73d20503.2303
Hi Thierry,<br><br>On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 11:22:45AM +0100, LARONDE Thierry wrote:<br>> I don't know if this is the correct place for it, but since it involves<br>> the format and Babel...<br><br>The hyphenation patterns have their own mailing list<br>(https://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/tex-hyphen), but since I read this one<br>too I can reply here.<br><br>> Not knowing if it's intentional (to not specify the babelname for this<br>> file) or not, I mention it... [...]
2023-03-14T11:44:16+01:00Arthur Rosendahlhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;73d20503.2303Babel/hyph-utf8: missing babelname for norwegian
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;ccc757fc.2303
Hello,<br><br>I don't know if this is the correct place for it, but since it involves<br>the format and Babel...<br><br>In the hyph-utf8 bundle of hyphenation patterns, there is one file that<br>has not babelname set (in the comments):<br><br>tex/generic/hyph-utf8/patterns/tex/hyph-no.tex<br><br>I don't know how other distributions make it, but I grep the pattern<br>files in order to match a Babel name with the patterns (in fact,<br>loadhyph-*.tex) to load when generating the format from a list of<br>supported languages that the user wants in the LaTeX format. [...]
2023-03-14T11:22:45+01:00LARONDE Thierryhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;ccc757fc.2303TeX Hour: Thu 1 Sep: 6:30 to 7:30pm BST: The Future of TeX (Knuth) and Tagged PDF (Mittelbach and Rowley)
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;f39d5350.2208
Hi<br><br>The TeX Hour has left holiday mode. If you were on holiday I hope you had<br>some pleasant days. The next TeX Hour is back to normal.<br><br>Subject: The future of TeX (Don Knuth) and LaTeX Tagged PDF (Mittelbach and<br>Rowley)<br>Date and time: Thursday 1 September, 14, 21 July, 6:30 to 7:30pm BST (ie<br>UK) time.<br>UK Time Now: https://time.is/UK.<br>Zoom URL:<br>https://us02web.zoom.us/j/78551255396?pwd=cHdJN0pTTXRlRCtSd1lCTHpuWmNIUT09 [...]
2022-08-30T21:16:02+01:00Jonathan Finehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;f39d5350.2208Robin Fairbairns died on 25 February
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;d53f8653.2203
Hello<br><br>Here is some sad news, communicated to the members of UK TUG by Joseph<br>Wright.<br>BEGIN<br>I am sad to say that Robin Fairbairns, former UK-TUG Chair<br>and long-standing CTAN node maintainer, died late last month. Robin<br>was well-known to many of us, either in his CTAN role, as author and editors<br>of the UK TeX FAQ or as a constant presence on comp.text.tex. Robin<br>was also a member of the LaTeX Project, and author of several<br>important LaTeX packages. His funeral will take place on the 30th March at<br>Cambridge Crematorium: [...]
2022-03-22T16:31:06+00:00Jonathan Finehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;d53f8653.2203TeX Hour tomorrow: More on Better Technical Documentation
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;13acabf2.2203
Hi<br><br>Tomorrow's TeX Hour continues from last month's topic: Better Technical<br>Documentation.<br><br>Date and time: Thursday 17 March, 6:30 to 7:30pm UK (and UTC) time.<br>UK time now: https://time.is/UK.<br>Zoom URL:<br>https://us02web.zoom.us/j/78551255396?pwd=cHdJN0pTTXRlRCtSd1lCTHpuWmNIUT09<br><br>Last month's meeting was based on a "needs discovery" meeting organised by<br>Daniele Procida, who I've met several times at UK Python conferences.<br>Daniele is now one of several Directors of Engineering at Canonical, the<br>developers of Ubuntu Linux, where he has special responsibility for<br>improving both documentation and the process by which it is created. [...]
2022-03-16T14:54:10+00:00Jonathan Finehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;13acabf2.2203TeX Hour tomorrow: Command Line and Text User interfaces, Python syntax errors
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;57288d54.2203
Hi<br><br>Accessibility is the focus of tomorrow's TeX Hour. All topics are welcome.<br>I'm providing:<br><br>1. Continuation of last month's discussion of Accessible Command Line<br>Interfaces (CLI)<br>2. Discussion of Text User Interfaces (TUI), and in particular<br>https://github.com/Textualize/textual<br>3. Visually impaired programmers and Python syntax errors, eg<br>https://bugs.python.org/issue46910<br>4. Accessible 'screen-shots' of CLI interaction and source files in HTML<br>and PDF. [...]
2022-03-09T16:21:54+00:00Jonathan Finehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;57288d54.2203TeX Hour tonight: Better Technical Documentation: 18:30 UTC time
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;ea2be20c.2202
Hi<br><br>Tonight's TeX hour is from 6:30 to 7:30pm UK (and UTC) time. The UK time<br>now: https://time.is/UK.<br>The zoom URL is<br>https://us02web.zoom.us/j/78551255396?pwd=cHdJN0pTTXRlRCtSd1lCTHpuWmNIUT09<br><br>Last week I attended a "needs discovery" meeting organised by Daniele<br>Procida, who I've met several times at UK Python conferences. Daniele is<br>now one of several Directors of Engineering at Canonical, the developers<br>of Ubuntu Linux, where he has special responsibility for improving both<br>documentation and the process by which it is created. [...]
2022-02-24T13:18:56+00:00Jonathan Finehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;ea2be20c.2202TeX Hour tonight: Accessible CLI // next week Community and Communication
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;669d0dac.2202
Hi<br><br>Tonight's TeX Hour is based on the paper "Accessibility of Command Line<br>Interfaces" by Sampath, Merrick and Macvean (all at Google, Seattle). I'm<br>delighted that Alice Merrick will be joining us. You can read the paper and<br>watch a short presentation on it at:<br><br>HTML & PDF: https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3411764.3445544<br>Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b_dlMBUAw8 # 5 minutes<br><br>The TeX hour is from 6:30 to 7:30pm UK time. The UK time now:<br>https://time.is/UK.<br>The zoom URL is<br>https://us02web.zoom.us/j/78551255396?pwd=cHdJN0pTTXRlRCtSd1lCTHpuWmNIUT09 [...]
2022-02-10T12:12:53+00:00Jonathan Finehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;669d0dac.2202TeX Hour tonight: The context for TeX // next week: Case study on accessibility of CLI
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;2b9c3dec.2202
Hi<br><br>Reminder: TeX Hour tonight, 6:30 to 7:30pm UK time.<br>https://us02web.zoom.us/j/78551255396?pwd=cHdJN0pTTXRlRCtSd1lCTHpuWmNIUT09<br><br>The topic will be Basics: The social, economic and technical context for<br>TeX: Past, present and future.<br><br>The past will start the release on 1 May 1840 of the Penny Black, the<br>world's first postage stamp. It was part of changes as revolutionary then<br>as email was in the 1970s. The bank note printer Perkins Bacon produced the<br>Penny Black, and they were sold at the Post Office. Today many of us pay<br>electronically for a barcode label which we print ourselves. [...]
2022-02-03T14:17:18+00:00Jonathan Finehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;2b9c3dec.2202Re: [LaTeXML] A new MathML-native preview site for arXiv
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;b751b1e5.2202
Deyan,<br><br>Many thanks for this.<br><br>I'm really impressed with how deep into the thicket of baroque markup<br>LaTeXML has penetrated, even to plain with 1990s style ams, e.g.,<br>https://ar5iv.org/html/alg-geom/9304003 (which, by the way, is a great<br>article).<br><br>𝐚𝐫𝐗𝐢𝐯 𝐬𝐡𝐨𝐮𝐥𝐝 𝐠𝐨 𝐟𝐨𝐫 𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐬.<br><br>-- Bill<br><br>William F Hammond<br>Email: gellmu@gmail.com<br>https://www.facebook.com/william.f.hammond<br>http://www.albany.edu/~hammond/<br><br>𝑺𝒖𝒑𝒑𝒐𝒓𝒕𝒊𝒏𝒈 𝒂𝒇𝒇𝒊𝒓𝒎𝒂𝒕𝒊𝒗𝒆 𝒂𝒄𝒕𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝒇𝒐𝒓 𝒕𝒉𝒆<br>𝒇𝒊𝒏𝒊𝒕𝒆 𝒑𝒍𝒂𝒄𝒆𝒔<br><br>On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 7:11 AM Deyan Ginev <deyan.ginev@gmail.com> wrote: [...]
2022-02-01T14:24:34-08:00William F Hammondhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;b751b1e5.2202No TeX Hour tomorrow: Next is Basics on Thu 3 Feb (6:30 to 7:30pm UK time)
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;e9422773.2201
Hi<br><br>For personal reasons there won't be a TeX Hour tomorrow. The next TeX Hour<br>will be on Thursday 3 February. The topic will be Basics, by which I mean<br>the fundamental concepts and technologies relating to TeX, Typography,<br>Written Language and Communication.<br><br>However, the next TeX Hour will be focussed on 2022 basics, not the basics<br>of 1978 (nearly 50 years ago). The basics are the forces that enable and<br>shape for success typesetting as a tool used for communication. [...]
2022-01-26T19:19:50+00:00Jonathan Finehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;e9422773.2201Re: dtx + dox package fail to compile with any of the -dev engines
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;9c7288af.2201
Hi Frank,<br><br>On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 06:12:56PM +0100, Frank Mittelbach wrote:<br>> Hi Robert<br>><br>> > Thank you! I should have examined this more thoroughly. I used dox<br>> > because I needed a macro to describe options. But now I see that I<br>> > can say \NewDocElement{Option}{option}, which is fine.<br>><br>> one of the reasons for upgrading doc after such a long time was to add the<br>> ability to document other kind of code beside macros/envs so it how<br>> essentially offers what dox offered in the past but with a somewhat<br>> [...]
2022-01-15T09:41:08+01:00Robert Alessihttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;9c7288af.2201Re: dtx + dox package fail to compile with any of the -dev engines
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;7acc0da5.2201
Hi Robert<br><br>> Thank you! I should have examined this more thoroughly. I used dox<br>> because I needed a macro to describe options. But now I see that I<br>> can say \NewDocElement{Option}{option}, which is fine.<br><br>one of the reasons for upgrading doc after such a long time was to add<br>the ability to document other kind of code beside macros/envs so it how<br>essentially offers what dox offered in the past but with a somewhat<br>different API and a bit more functionality. [...]
2022-01-14T18:12:56+01:00Frank Mittelbachhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;7acc0da5.2201Re: dtx + dox package fail to compile with any of the -dev engines
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;7324cf0.2201
On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 09:07:13AM +0100, Ulrike Fischer wrote:<br>> Am Fri, 14 Jan 2022 08:44:06 +0100 schrieb Robert Alessi:<br>[...]<br>> > Any of the -dev engines fail to compile the attached .dtx file if the<br>> > “dox” package is loaded, but I am not sure the failure is caused by<br>> > this package.<br>><br>> the new doc version used in latex-dev incorporates a few ideas of<br>> dox, see the documentation. Beside others it now also defines the<br>> command \SpecialMacroIndex, and defines it defined<br>> \SpecialUsageIndex with it:<br>><br>> \def\SpecialUsageIndex{\SpecialMacroIndex}.<br>><br> [...]
2022-01-14T14:19:59+01:00Robert Alessihttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;7324cf0.2201Re: dtx + dox package fail to compile with any of the -dev engines
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;e75c0161.2201
Am Fri, 14 Jan 2022 08:44:06 +0100 schrieb Robert Alessi:<br><br>> Dear List,<br>><br>> Something happened with today's update.<br>><br>> Any of the -dev engines fail to compile the attached .dtx file if the<br>> “dox” package is loaded, but I am not sure the failure is caused by<br>> this package.<br>><br>> (pdf|xe|lua)latex-dev engines seem to bump into \@doc@describe which<br>> is defined in doc-v3beta.sty. [...]
2022-01-14T09:07:13+01:00Ulrike Fischerhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;e75c0161.2201dtx + dox package fail to compile with any of the -dev engines
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;9d467366.2201
Dear List,<br><br>Something happened with today's update.<br><br>Any of the -dev engines fail to compile the attached .dtx file if the<br>“dox” package is loaded, but I am not sure the failure is caused by<br>this package.<br><br>(pdf|xe|lua)latex-dev engines seem to bump into \@doc@describe which<br>is defined in doc-v3beta.sty.<br><br>Thank you for your help.<br><br>Best,<br><br>Robert
2022-01-14T08:44:06+01:00Robert Alessihttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;9d467366.2201TeX Hour: Thu 13 Jan: Architecture for Accessible Typesetting // Thu 20 Jan: TeX Live 2022 w. Nelson Beeb e
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;60040320.2201
Hi<br><br>First, there's a really valuable and important accessibility thread for us<br>on the Blind Math mailing list. It's deeply rooted in real-world problems<br>and solutions. Mainly it's Jonathan Godfrey's response to Brandon Bigg's<br>query: Tutorial on Using RMarkdown?<br>http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/blindmath_nfbnet.org/2022-January/010146.html<br><br>In tomorrow's (Thursday) TeX Hour I'll share my initial thoughts on an<br>architecture for accessible typesetting. This will be a technical session,<br>focused on having control over what happens whenever input text is added to<br>TeX's horizontal list for the current paragraph. Last year a similar TeX<br>Hour conversation led to the concept of a Portable TeX Document, so<br>finger's [...]
2022-01-12T17:48:33+00:00Jonathan Finehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;60040320.2201Happy New Year: TeX Hour: Thu 6 Jan 2022: 6:30-7:30 UK Time
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;d0bfd27f.2201
Hi<br><br>Happy New Year. May you and those around you be safe and happy.<br><br>When a year ago I started the weekly TeX Hour video meetings, I had ideas<br>as to what would happen. I'm pleased to say that I paid some attention to<br>what was going on around me, and that I was able to let go of many of my<br>previous ideas. Experience, someone said, is knowledge you get just after<br>you needed it! [...]
2022-01-05T18:20:04+00:00Jonathan Finehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;d0bfd27f.2201TeX Hours for remainder of 2021 (Thursdays, 6:30 to 7:30pm UK time)
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;83e70100.2112
Hi<br><br>This is the last TeX Hour announcement for this year.<br><br>Each new year is an opportunity for review, change and renewal. And next<br>month the TeX Hour starts its second year. This month there'll be 4<br>meetings where we'll look both backwards and forwards. In January I'll be<br>making some wishes and suggestions for 2022. [...]
2021-12-01T19:28:12+00:00Jonathan Finehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;83e70100.2112TeX Hour: Thu 18 Nov: Portable TeX Documents. (Thu 25 is US Thanksgiving)
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;432fff1c.2111
Hi<br><br>I'm gathering projects for 2022. Last week I spoke about creating an<br>accessibility checker for the source files for LaTeX documents. Also last<br>week I gave my talk on Portable TeX Documents (PTD) at the very first<br>PackagingCon. That's also going to be a 2022 project for me.<br><br>Thu 18 Nov: 6:30 to 7:30pm UK(=GMT) time. UK time now: https://time.is/UK.<br>Title: Portable TeX Documents - next steps<br>https://us02web.zoom.us/j/78551255396?pwd=cHdJN0pTTXRlRCtSd1lCTHpuWmNIUT09 [...]
2021-11-17T17:01:22+00:00Jonathan Finehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;432fff1c.2111TeX Hour: Thu 11 Nov: Idea - an online accessible LaTeX math checker
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;c9ca35ee.2111
Hi<br><br>I've spent some time today thinking about how I can best contribute to<br>accessible mathematics in 2022, besides continuing to run the TeX Hour. My<br>conclusion is this: Contribute to an online accessible LaTeX math checker.<br><br>This is a personal conclusion based on my skills, interests, goals and<br>social status (I'm retired). At tomorrow's TeX Hour I'll explain what I<br>have in mind, and the thinking that got me there. [...]
2021-11-10T17:44:49+00:00Jonathan Finehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;c9ca35ee.2111TeX Hour: FRIDAY 5 Nov: Office of Disability Services and LaTeX developers
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;7413f570.2111
Hi<br><br>NOTE: This week's TeX Hour is FRIDAY. The UK clocks moved back to GMT last<br>weekend.<br><br>FRI 5 Nov: 6:30 to 7:30pm UK(=GMT) time. UK time now: https://time.is/UK.<br>Title: Office of Disability Services and LaTeX developers<br>https://us02web.zoom.us/j/78551255396?pwd=cHdJN0pTTXRlRCtSd1lCTHpuWmNIUT09<br><br>I'm delighted to have Steve Jacobs returning as our special guest. To<br>accommodate him we've moved the TeX Hour to FRIDAY (and still 6:30 to<br>7:30pm UK time). He'll talk about Office of Disabilities Service [ODS]<br>professionals who work in STEM. [...]
2021-11-03T17:09:08+00:00Jonathan Finehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;7413f570.2111TeX Hour: Thu 21 and 28 October: Durable conversion to accessible outputs
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;595f3136.2110
Hi<br><br>Tomorrow's and last week's TeX hours are focused respectively on durable<br>and accessible rendering of LaTeX documents. Tomorrow's TeX Hour is A brief<br>introduction to Portable TeX Documents. It will be a preview and rehearsal<br>for my talk https://pretalx.com/packagingcon-2021/talk/XTAJ7Z/.<br><br>Thu 28 October: 6:30 to 7:30pm UK time (not GMT). UK time now:<br>https://time.is/UK.<br>Title: A brief introduction to Portable TeX Documents<br>https://us02web.zoom.us/j/78551255396?pwd=cHdJN0pTTXRlRCtSd1lCTHpuWmNIUT09 [...]
2021-10-27T18:35:51+01:00Jonathan Finehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;595f3136.2110TeX Hour: Thu 21 and 28 October: Durable conversion to accessible outputs
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;7c172e86.2110
Hi<br><br>The next two TeX hours are focused respectively on accessible and durable<br>rendering of LaTeX documents.<br><br>All times are UK time (not GMT). UK time now: https://time.is/UK.<br><br>Thu 21 October: 6:30 to 7:30pm: What is an accessible TeX rendering<br>pipeline?<br>https://us02web.zoom.us/j/78551255396?pwd=cHdJN0pTTXRlRCtSd1lCTHpuWmNIUT09<br><br>Thu 28 October: 6:30 to 7:30pm: A brief introduction to Portable TeX<br>Documents<br>This is a preview of my talk<br>https://pretalx.com/packagingcon-2021/talk/XTAJ7Z/<br>https://us02web.zoom.us/j/78551255396?pwd=cHdJN0pTTXRlRCtSd1lCTHpuWmNIUT09 [...]
2021-10-20T19:32:58+01:00Jonathan Finehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;7c172e86.2110Re: expl3-code and Prote
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;e5c63230.2110
Hello Joseph,<br><br>Le Mon, Oct 18, 2021 at 02:04:20PM +0100, Joseph Wright a écrit :<br>> Hello Thierry<br>><br>> > From an engineering point of view, couldn't the code set everything with<br>> > some:<br>> ><br>> > \ifx\engineversion\undefined<br>> > \else<br>> > \input engine.tex<br>> > \fi<br>> ><br>> > ? So that it's easier to see what depends on the engine and in order<br>> > for modifications to the engine to be severed from the rest of the code?<br>><br>> Very little of the code is engine-specific, and the parts that are [...]
2021-10-18T16:06:33+02:00LARONDE Thierryhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;e5c63230.2110Re: expl3-code and Prote
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;b9b1a50b.2110
Hello Phelype,<br><br>Le Mon, Oct 18, 2021 at 09:56:51AM -0300, Phelype Oleinik a écrit :<br>> Hi Thierry,<br>><br>> On Mon, Oct 18, 2021 at 5:23 AM LARONDE Thierry <tlaronde@polynum.com> wrote:<br>> ><br>> > ---8<---<br>> > LaTeX2e <2021-06-01> patch level 1<br>> > inputing expl3.ltx (l3kernel/expl3.ltx (l3kernel/expl3-code.tex<br>> > ! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !<br>> > Argh, internal LaTeX3 error!<br>> ><br>> > Module kernel, message name "command-already-defined":<br>> > Arguments '\@@_use_none_delimit_by_q_recursion_stop:w' and '\long<br>> > macro:#1\q_@@<br>> > _recursion_stop ->'<br>> ><br>> > This is one for The LaTeX3 Project: bailing out.<br>> > \msg_error:nnxx ...he [...]
2021-10-18T16:04:56+02:00LARONDE Thierryhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;b9b1a50b.2110Re: expl3-code and Prote
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;ce18e78b.2110
Hello Thierry<br><br>> From an engineering point of view, couldn't the code set everything with<br>> some:<br>><br>> \ifx\engineversion\undefined<br>> \else<br>> \input engine.tex<br>> \fi<br>><br>> ? So that it's easier to see what depends on the engine and in order<br>> for modifications to the engine to be severed from the rest of the code?<br><br>Very little of the code is engine-specific, and the parts that are are<br>largely in separate files as you suggest. Broadly [...]
2021-10-18T14:04:20+01:00Joseph Wrighthttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;ce18e78b.2110Re: expl3-code and Prote
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;7c6f58ac.2110
Hi Thierry,<br><br>On Mon, Oct 18, 2021 at 5:23 AM LARONDE Thierry <tlaronde@polynum.com> wrote:<br>><br>> ---8<---<br>> LaTeX2e <2021-06-01> patch level 1<br>> inputing expl3.ltx (l3kernel/expl3.ltx (l3kernel/expl3-code.tex<br>> ! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !<br>> Argh, internal LaTeX3 error!<br>><br>> Module kernel, message name "command-already-defined":<br>> Arguments '\@@_use_none_delimit_by_q_recursion_stop:w' and '\long<br>> macro:#1\q_@@<br>> _recursion_stop ->'<br>><br>> This is one for The LaTeX3 Project: bailing out.<br>> \msg_error:nnxx ...he LaTeX3 Project: bailing out}<br>> \tex_end:D<br>> l.2946 ...@_use_none_delimit_by_q_recursion_stop:w<br>> --->8--- [...]
2021-10-18T09:56:51-03:00Phelype Oleinikhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;7c6f58ac.2110expl3-code and Prote
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;631f43bd.2110
Hello,<br><br>After having fixed the implementation of \expanded (from errors reported<br>by Martin Ruckert and from narrowing down done by Phelype Oleinik), the<br>following code, line 200:<br><br>\expandafter\ifx\csname kanjiskip\endcsname\relax<br>\expandafter\ifx\csname Proteversion\endcsname\relax<br>\else<br>1%<br>\fi<br><br>is enough to get things going and apparently, for the primitives, the<br>things are OK.<br><br>But there are numerous places where the engines are explicitely set and,<br>obviously, this can't go very long without switching code for Prote. The<br>error is for example this with the only---and not sufficient---code<br>above: [...]
2021-10-18T10:23:10+02:00LARONDE Thierryhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;631f43bd.2110Accessible TeX Hour: Thu 14 Oct: Potential US gov't grant opportunity ($600,000 over 3 years)
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;3df93eed.2110
Hi<br><br>The US Government is likely to announce a grant opportunity whose scope can<br>include making it easier for teachers, professors, and other professionals<br>to render math-focused (STEM) educational materials accessible to students<br>with print disabilities. Also within scope is improving the experience of<br>visually impaired programmers.<br><br>The government expects to fund seven projects for three years each at<br>~$200,000 a year, per project. The estimated start date is September 2022.<br>This week's special guest is Steve Jacobs (President of the IDEAL Group).<br>Steve has much experience with US Government-funded projects, from<br>inception to application to development to completion. [...]
2021-10-12T21:10:28+01:00Jonathan Finehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;3df93eed.2110Prote (added primitives) available in kerTeX
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;f3b0d707.2110
Hello,<br><br>Prote has been modified to extend e-TeX 2.6 and has been<br>incorporated (system dependent bits developed) in the kerTeX<br>distribution.<br><br>Prote passes the TRIP and ETRIP tests and is compliant with the API<br>contract described in prote_man.pdf.<br><br>The LaTeX recipe: latex.sh has been updated so that if Prote exists (in<br>kerTeX) it is used as the engine for LaTeX, with not only e-TeX<br>extensions but Prote ones too. [...]
2021-10-11T20:20:32+02:00LARONDE Thierryhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;f3b0d707.2110Thu 7 Oct: Beginners TeX Hour: How to make a difference in 3 months
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;63e945e0.2110
Hi<br><br>At the TeX Hour we've discussed the beginner's experience over the past 10<br>months. Are we ready to make a difference? I think so. The focus of<br>tomorrow's TeX Hour is what can those who are present do to help beginners<br>over the next 3 months, 6 months and year.<br><br>Date and time: Thursday 7 October, 6.30 to 7.30pm UK time.<br>UK time now: https://time.is/UK.<br>Zoom URL:<br>https://us02web.zoom.us/j/78551255396?pwd=cHdJN0pTTXRlRCtSd1lCTHpuWmNIUT09 [...]
2021-10-06T18:36:25+01:00Jonathan Finehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;63e945e0.2110No TeX Hour tomorrow (Thursday 30 September)
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;d8b5a6b7.2109
Hi<br><br>I'm on holiday and lack sufficient internet to host the TeX Hour. Apologies<br>and please come back next week.<br><br>best regards<br><br>Jonathan
2021-09-29T20:30:38+01:00Jonathan Finehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;d8b5a6b7.2109TeX Hour tomorrow: An online forum for TeX users in the UK (18:30 to 19:30 UK time)
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;537fa2fa.2109
Hi<br><br>Tomorrow's TeX Hour is a bit special, and also a bit sad. The UK TeX Users<br>Group is stagnant, and might very soon decide to dissolve itself. I've been<br>a member since about 1990 so that will hit me hard.<br><br>To help us make the best of what there is, I've taken the initiative to set<br>up an online forum for TeX users in the UK. The closest we've got to that<br>today is UK-TUG-Announce. I posted to that list (see below) reporting on<br>progress so far. [...]
2021-09-22T18:31:05+01:00Jonathan Finehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;537fa2fa.2109Thur 16 Sept: TeX Hour: Pretty-print, lint and link LaTeX source files (6:30 to 7:30pm UK time)
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;1dba0d51.2109
Hi<br><br>SUMMARY<br>Tomorrow's TeX Hour will discuss tools for pretty-printing, lint, index and<br>other tools for processing LaTeX document source files. The usual LaTeX to<br>PDF provides value for those who read typeset documents (on-screen or when<br>printed). The focus tomorrow will be on tools that provide additional value<br>for those who read and write LaTeX source documents. Such tools are also a<br>route to improved accessibility. [...]
2021-09-15T19:23:40+01:00Jonathan Finehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;1dba0d51.2109New engine: Prote with added primitives
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;3ef78852.2109
Hello,<br><br>For the ones not listening on tex-implementors, please note that, as<br>announced, I have created a new engine called: Prote, that consists<br>of a change file to be applied after etex.ch and before system<br>dependent changes.<br><br>It is like e-TeX: compatible with TeX; one star adds e-TeX features; two<br>stars add Prote features with, for now, the LaTeX required extensions. [...]
2021-09-15T17:08:16+02:00LARONDE Thierryhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;3ef78852.2109Thur 9 Sept: TeX Hour: Rich DVI files and accessible PDF (6:30 to 7:30pm UK time)
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;9770cdc8.2109
Hi<br><br>Summary: TeX converts source to DVI, an abstract page description language.<br>By definition, a rich DVI file contains word-by-word backlinks to the TeX<br>source. We discuss how to create rich DVI, and how to render it to an<br>accessible PDF. We compare this to the LaTeX Project approach.<br><br>Date and time: Thursday 9 September, 6.30 to 7.30pm UK time.<br>UK time now: https://time.is/UK.<br>Zoom URL:<br>https://us02web.zoom.us/j/78551255396?pwd=cHdJN0pTTXRlRCtSd1lCTHpuWmNIUT09 [...]
2021-09-07T17:22:37+01:00Jonathan Finehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;9770cdc8.2109Re: TeX Hour Thur 2 Sept: Interactive online help: 6:30 to 7:30pm London time
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;e13ce339.2109
Hi Jonathan,<br><br>On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 11:45 AM you wrote in part:<br><br>I'd like to see an online LaTeX syntax checker, that's linked to a help<br>> system.<br>><br><br>In 1998 I concluded that such a thing is impossible if it is to include all<br>documents that run "correctly" -- hard to define, e.g. think about $f(x$)<br>-- through latex the program (which now is one of pdflatex, xetex, or<br>lualatex -- maybe also the various guises of tex4ht and latexml). [...]
2021-09-01T18:58:58-07:00William F Hammondhttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;e13ce339.2109TeX Hour Thur 2 Sept: Interactive online help: 6:30 to 7:30pm London time
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;bb3ba7b0.2109
Hi<br><br>Summary: Most popular computer languages provide useful interactive online<br>help and documentation. LaTeX<br><br>Date and time: Thursday 2 September, 6.30 to 7.30pm UK time.<br>UK time now: https://time.is/UK.<br>Zoom URL:<br>https://us02web.zoom.us/j/78551255396?pwd=cHdJN0pTTXRlRCtSd1lCTHpuWmNIUT09<br><br>OVERVIEW<br>I'd like our community to develop online tools to help LaTeX authors,<br>particularly beginners. Here's an example. It's easy to make a syntax error<br>when writing a LaTeX document. And then you get a TeX error, perhaps<br>unconnected with your error. I'd like to see an online LaTeX syntax<br>checker, that's linked to a help system. [...]
2021-09-01T19:44:44+01:00Jonathan Finehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;bb3ba7b0.2109TeX Hour Thur 26 Aug: Portable TeX Documents: 6:30 to 7:30pm London time
https://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;76294a74.2108
Hi<br><br>Summary: I think Portable TeX Documents are a great idea. (Disclaimer: I'm<br>the inventor.) Come to tomorrow's TeX Hour to discuss.<br><br>Date and time: Thursday 26 August, 6.30 to 7.30pm UK time.<br>UK time now: https://time.is/UK.<br>Zoom URL:<br>https://us02web.zoom.us/j/78551255396?pwd=cHdJN0pTTXRlRCtSd1lCTHpuWmNIUT09<br><br>OVERVIEW<br>Adobe released PostScript (PS) in 1982, and Portable Document Format (PDF)<br>in 1993. Many production and user problems in PS were fixed in PDF, which<br>remained a proprietary standard until 2008. PS and PDF were both based on<br>very sound technical and business decisions. PDF so to speak created a safe<br>and self-contained world for the distribution of typeset [...]
2021-08-25T17:45:13+01:00Jonathan Finehttps://listserv.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/wa?A2=LATEX-L;76294a74.2108