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 Subject: Re: encodings pair (was: babel 3.7 beta release) From: Bernard GAULLE <[log in to unmask]> Reply To: Mailing list for the LaTeX3 project <[log in to unmask]> Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 14:52:45 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain Parts/Attachments: text/plain (72 lines)
DR> When you write \usepackage[frenchb]{babel}, babel tries to load
DR> the french hyphenation patterns,

definitely no, you can't dynamically load hyphenation files
at run time with std TeX engines.

DR> If you get a document with \usepackage[frenchb]{babel} and you don't
DR> have the right hyphenation patterns, you get a wrong output,
DR> but it is your fault,

no, the end user is nearly never the person who installed TeX
and he generally don't know what he can do or not at the stage of
languages.

DR> To some extent the same goes with encodings, both input and output.
DR> Given the features of TeX, the choice of the output encoding
DR> is relevant for hyphenation,

hum, i guess you wanted to say: hyphenation is relevant of the font in use.

DR> or if you prefer, the brand of TeX
DR> you use (TeX, MlTeX, ...) is not independent of the encoding of
DR> fonts you use. I think we agree on this.

no, any TeX using mltex option is independent of encodings. You can
use CM, EC, Times, ... what you want with any related encoding.
It would be so easy if all formats around the world were done
with the mltex option. It's free, standard (as an option can be) and
without any danger. But life is different ;=)

DR> The point is that
DR> common decisions can be made a default, even if they do not suit
DR> everybody. And I think most french users of LaTeX use T1 as an output
DR> encoding

I hope NO, for many reasons i've no time to discuss here (though
i hope they switch to T1 when really needed). T1 is not a necessary
TeX default encoding for a lot of people and languages.

DR> This is not to deny that there are other ways of doing things,
DR> just that it is sensible to have defaults. In this debate, it is
DR> also useful to keep the distinction clear between "consensual defaults"
DR> and "local configurations." I am a strong opponent to local
DR> configurations that make encodings and other things an implicit *local*
DR> default. This goes against portability.

no again. Portability means that what you "port" (eg send to someone else)
will immediately run without change. But, unfortunately, all language
dependent documents need a language hyphenation file you may or may not have
in your format, depending of the interest shown by the installing people.
I really understand why you are opposite to local configurations but
i also must say that's the opposite of the end user choices.
I don't agree that local configurations are against portability but
i agree that some automatic process is missing to let show in a source
document what the local defaults are (which a XML application could
state).

DR> There are various ways of implementing the defaults I advocate,
DR> but, in some way, they should be tied to the language. I mean,
DR> the defaults should be chosen at the time the language is selected
DR> (but the defaults can depend on other factors, as I said in another
DR> message). [...]
DR> It is not much work, and it would benefit to all.

it seems you never read my report (a contribution to the LaTeX3 project,
vt15d02.tex, dated 21 march 1994!) which list all TeX mechanisms for
language processing. not much work, really? Let's see how many years
we still wait for that...

--bg